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Branch Lines Coming off the Riser (NFPA 99, 2012 ed.)

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  • Tuesday, April 25, 2017 12:51 PM
    Message # 4778880

    A facility is asking me if they can take the existing piping on the first floor back down to the basement and then back up to the first floor. The reason is to reroute the piping that currently passes through the kitchen. The hallway ceiling is pretty busy, so they wanted to know if going under the kitchen would be acceptable. I cannot find anything that prohibits this in the 99. Does anybody have any input about something I may be missing? Anything dealing with the UPC?

  • Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:51 AM
    Reply # 4783675 on 4778880

    5.1.4.7  Service Valves. Service valves shall be installed to allow servicing or modification of lateral branch piping from a main or riser without shutting down the entire main, riser, or facility.



    5.1.4.7.1  Only one service valve shall be required for each branch off of a riser, regardless of how many zone valve boxes are installed on that lateral.

    5.1.4.7.2  Service valves shall be placed in the branch piping prior to any zone valve box assembly on that branch.

    5.1.4.7.3  Service valves shall be located in any one of the following areas: 

    (1) 

    Behind a locked access door

    (2) 

    Locked open above a ceiling

    (3) 

    Locked open in a secure area

    5.1.4.7.4  Service valves shall be labeled in accordance with 5.1.11.2.



     Yes as long as you're not affecting any other service valves on the other floors and the only floor your controlling is the first floor. 

  • Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:39 PM
    Reply # 4784807 on 4778880
    Al Moon (Administrator)

    One would think - YES - it's OK, in my opinion

    (better then oxygen in the kitchen open flame area) 

    Labeling the lines and tagging the valve per NFPA 99 is key.

    Adding directional arrows to the lines would also be of help.

    (FYI: This is not a NFPA 99 Code Requirement)

  • Thursday, April 27, 2017 7:51 AM
    Reply # 4786869 on 4778880
    Corky Bishop (Administrator)

    I see no problem with the pipe design proposed.  It is not prohibited to serve zones on more than one floor from the same service valve either.  Labeling is very important when doing so.

     

    That is why it is called a service valve rather than a floor valve.

     

  • Friday, April 28, 2017 6:35 AM
    Reply # 4789645 on 4778880

    My interpretation is that a service valve is prohibited from serving multiple floors.

     

    5.1.4.7 Service Valves. Service valves shall be installed to allow servicing or modification of lateral branch piping from a main or riser without shutting down the entire main, riser, or facility.

     

    NFPA 99 explicitly defines a lateral as serving a single story. 

     

    3.3.144.1 Branch (Lateral) Lines. Those sections or portions of the piping system that serve a room or group of rooms on the same story of the facility. (PIP)

     

    So, in my interpretation, the application of these two requirements concurrently would prohibit a service valve from controlling multiple floors. 

    Last modified: Friday, April 28, 2017 7:34 AM | Luke Miller
  • Friday, April 28, 2017 11:34 AM
    Reply # 4790202 on 4778880

     It was stated that the service valve was going to only handle one floor it's piped to that one floor via the basement but does not service any other floor. 

  • Friday, April 28, 2017 3:32 PM
    Reply # 4790576 on 4778880
    Corky Bishop (Administrator)

    Oooooo!  I like that definition of branch (lateral) lines.  Thanks Luke!

     

     

  • Tuesday, May 02, 2017 3:10 PM
    Reply # 4809314 on 4778880

    I felt a need to weigh in here, even though the post is getting a little old.


    The original question was can piping from one floor be re-routed to a lower floor, then returned to the original (first) floor (without adding branches, outlets, or other on the lower floor).


    The discussion turned to service valves (an all-important, and often overlooked valve, IMO.)


    Here is my take on the original question:

    If you have a procedure room (Cath Lab) with outlets in a pedestal (stainless steel box on floor), you run piping from your zone valve down the wall to the ceiling space of the floor below you, then penetrate the floor where the pedestal is to be located.  


    What is the difference?  


    In both cases the piping will be routed at some point to another floor, after being fed from a valve that is only to serve a room or rooms on the same story.   

    I understand Luke's interpretation of Branch lines.  But for me, key words are "serve a room or group of rooms on the same story".  I believe they are, even if the pipeline drops down a floor for a bit...


    One concern is to somehow assure that this line is never altered (in the future) to feed more than one floor.  I believe additional labeling should be required.

  • Wednesday, May 03, 2017 5:31 AM
    Reply # 4811952 on 4778880

    My apologies.  I agree that NFPA doesn't prohibit a piping run from changing floors, especially to avoid the potential fire hazards mentioned.  Labeling would be key here.

     

    My response was specifically in regards to a service valve being prohibited from controlling rooms on different floors.

  • Sunday, May 07, 2017 4:53 AM
    Reply # 4818800 on 4778880
    Steve Bradshaw (Administrator)

    That was a good point Luke about the service valves only feeding outlets on a single floor.  In old facilities that have zones added time after time it would be an easy thing for a verifier to miss.

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